Revelations

Are Kids Safer Now?

December 02, 2021 Susan Season 1 Episode 1
Revelations
Are Kids Safer Now?
Show Notes Transcript

The 2011 Philadelphia Grand Jury Report exposed the Catholic hierarchy's continuing coverup despite the horrific details of clergy child sex abuse in the 2005 Grand Jury Report. For a second time, the Archdiocese made promises of accountability and transparency. Have they been kept? Are kids any safer now? We have the mind-blowing answer that every parent and Catholic needs to hear. Zach Hiner, the executive director of the Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests, and Mike McDonnell, their director of communications and a survivor of clergy child sex abuse in Philadelphia, join co-hosts and Catholics4Change co-founders, Kathy Kane and Susan Matthews.

Episode Resources:
Catholics4Change.com
Catholics4Change Community
SNAP - Survivors Network of Those Abused By Priests
The Archdiocese of Philadelphia

2020 Annual Report Charter for the Protection of Children and Young People


Priest to Return After Porn Investigation But Questions Remain - The Philadelphia Inquirer
Adult abuse case: accusations of grave mishandling across Church jurisdictions - Catholic Herald
Chaput's Charter Revision Is Dangerous for Diocesan Kids - Catholics4Change.com
Retreating From the Truth - Catholics4Change.com
Philadelphia priest suspended for decades-old abuse allegation - Catholic Philly
Philadelphia priest removed from ministry on sex abuse claim - Catholic Philly

Susan Matthews:

A 2011 Philadelphia grand jury report revealed decades of horrific clergy child sex abuse, and an ongoing cover up involving church hierarchy. promises were made. And people believe that things could change. But in 2011, another Philadelphia grand jury report revealed they hadn't. Again promises of transparency, accountability, and better child protective policies are made. It's now 2021 10 years later, our kids any safer. You're listening to Revelations what the bishops don't want you to know. My co host Kathy Kane and I are joined today by Zack Heiner, the executive director of snap the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, along with their director of communications Mike McDonald, who's also a survivor of child sex abuse in the Philadelphia archdiocese, and he'll be very generously sharing his unique perspective. I am Susan Matthews. And I'd also like to add that we invite it representatives from the Archdiocese of Philadelphia. In order to create balance, we invited Ken Gavin the Director of Communications, Lesley Avila, the Director of the Office for Child and Youth protection, and John Delaney, the Director of the Office of Investigations all three declined our invitation. Which brings us to our first talking point, a lack of transparency, accountability, and effective Child Protection Policy. Zack for those who may not be familiar, can you please explain the origin and purpose of diocesan review boards?

Zach Hiner:

So yeah, so the origin and purpose of review boards, you know, in June of 2002, following the, you know, massive outcry for a reckoning after the spotlight team at the Boston Globe uncovered, you know, decades of abuse and cover up in the Archdiocese of Boston, American prelates met in Dallas to discuss what to do what their next steps would be. And the key outcome of that meeting, if you will, was the creation of what's called the charter for the protection of children and young people or the Dallas charter, a guiding document for bishops of what was expected of them in cases of clergy abuse, how they're supposed to respond when they learn of allegations, and a host of other policies and procedures, I think largely aimed at placating parishioners and parents. But in that, in that charter, part of what the church created was a mandate that each diocese create a review board that will quote, function as a confidential and consultative body to the bishop in the diocese. So one of the biggest reasons really for the creation of review boards, immediately, not only was the church's desire to have more voices in the process, right when allegations were brought forward, but simply because when allegations are brought forward, especially at that time, the halls of Justice are so often closed to survivors due to statute of limitations reasons, and for those unfamiliar, the statutes of limitations of the rules that govern how crimes can be, you know, prosecutors and adjudicated based on timing. So, childhood sexual abuse is a crime where, in the past couple of decades, we've seen those statute limitations change quite a bit in the early 2000s. So they were still very restrictive, and a lot of the survivors would come forward at that time, had no recourse, nowhere to go. So the church thought creating a review board would be one way that survivors could at least get their information in the hands of someone who could do something about it. And, you know, take their stories seriously. Now, in my role at snap, unfortunately, from from the folks who I've talked to victims all too often came away feeling that they were the ones being investigated, or their allegations were never being taken seriously by that board in the first place. But you know, when they were first constructed review boards were meant to be a group of five individuals. Each person had to, quote, be in full communion with the church, so a Catholic in good standing in the diocesan area. And they also the the US CCB delineated a couple of more requirements for the board, one being that one member will be a priest who is an experienced and respected pastor of the Diocese. And funnily enough, one member should have a particular expertise in the treatment of sexual abuse of biner. So, so of this board of five people, one has to be a priest, and only one has to have some knowledge about what the board is ostensibly created to advise and investigate. But one thing that I see, you know, looking at the charter is that you can sort of see the problems that have manifested in review boards from the very beginning. With how the responsibilities were laid out by the church in the charter, nowhere in the charter, does it give review boards, any real authority to determine credibility of victims the culpability of abusers or enablers, or really give these review boards leeway at all on how to handle a case of abuse, all of those decisions are left up to and made alone by the bishop in charge. In the essential norms document that the church put out in conjunction with the charter, they say the functions of this board may include and I'm focusing on that word may, it doesn't say that the review board should do anything specifically, it delineates a couple things that the board can be involved in. So So again, this charter, these review boards were sent out as this, you know, look at this new system that we have, but in reality, the new system didn't make any substantive substantive changes. Bishop still were in charge of the entire process.

Susan Matthews:

Kathy, you're a social worker and well versed in protective policies, has the archdiocese and review board improved child safety since it's an implementation?

Kathy Kane:

In Philadelphia, we do so often in their press releases and everything. It gives the background of our review board, and we do have people from law enforcement and we do have child welfare, and if anything, I think Philadelphia sort of touts the backgrounds of the people involved. However, how are those people used or they used in the most efficient way? And in 2011, after the grand jury report and accountant Xero, who was the former review board chairperson, wrote an article it was called the fog of scandal. It was published in Commonweal magazine. And again, a lot of credit for all the things that she pointed out that she had experienced on the review board. The one thing she also issued some recommendations, six recommendations. The one thing that ahead recommended was that priests be removed upon receipt of an allegation when there is a semblance of truth, pending the review and investigation. The other thing she pointed out was sometimes the review board had recommended a priest be allowed to stay in ministry but in restricted ministry with like a supervision monitoring team type of thing involved. And she found that problematic because how could another human being watch another grown adult, know where they are at all times and things like that shit, excellent recommendations. That was in 2011. In 2016, the Philadelphia archdiocese revised their child's the Child Protection charter because each diocese has a charter and some things are very similar, hands down by the US CCB from 2002. But each diocese can have things that you know, fit for their own purpose. In 2016, the Archdiocese removed the review board from the interim action part of the situation. So, when an allegation is received, usually of historic sex abuse of abuse that has happened in the past, not parent abuse, the delegate of investigations, the director of OCI paid officer Child Youth protection, the vicar of clergy, they meet and they discuss what should the interim action be? Should the priests be removed? You know, if he is in the parish, if he is at a school? What are we doing until we determine if this allegation is credible or not? What they used to do was include the review board in that and the policy, it says of critical importance was the policy that the review board would advise Archbishop Shikou whether the interim action recommendations by the vicar for clergy, Director of investigations and OC wipey, were appropriate to provide for the safety of children that IS NOW ELIMINATED and no longer exists. So the review board is not consulted on what is going to happen for the safety of children during an investigation and in the Archdiocese of Philadelphia. Some of these investigations have taken up to one year, and the priests have been left in ministry with children with access to children in all different ways for up to one year. The review board is now informed of the decision that has been made but they are not consulted. Their input is not part of the decision as to what should happen to the priests during the interim action which is the investigative phase. So as much as in Philadelphia, we tout the backgrounds of different Review Board members on a social worker if I was on the review board, and they came to me and they said, you know, should we leave this priest in ministry? I would say we should do what most diocese doing the United States, we should remove the priests make the announcement. It's not an admission of guilt or innocence. were protected simply to protect the children until we till we know exactly what's going on. And it also gives the public the opportunity to contact the diocese, should they have relevant information on this priest who is now under investigation? And in Philadelphia, we are not doing that. The other thing is we do it randomly. There'll be a priest removed once in a while. The other priests under investigation are not removed. Why? How does this benefit children, their safety? How does it work for praise? That it's not a review board determine it's not a review where IT professionals determine an interim action. It's a few people having what John Delaney has called Conversations. They have conversations. And then the archbishop makes a decision. And in other diocese, you can go on their websites, and you can see the steps laid out on what happens. Parents can see that priests can see that there is a there's a definite policy involved. We don't have that. No, I have the point jump in and say closed door conversation was door conversations.

Susan Matthews:

It would seem that a qualified review board must be a problem for the for the Archdiocese.

Kathy Kane:

I'm I'm actually thinking and we don't know, because the Archdiocese is not here today. And one of the questions I would ask them is why was the review board taking out of the interim action? Was it because the review board was suggesting these priests should be removed during the investigation? It's a fair conclusion. Was it that was it that maybe they were saying we shouldn't leave them with children? That could be dangerous, therefore, they've been cut out? We don't know. I've also asked the Archdiocese. Why were they cut out of that process? They don't know. No one knows. So these are the types of questions that they could answer today. And they could answer freely. They could correct anything that we've said that might not, you know, be accurate. Because the one thing that Susan I always say is we want accuracy. That all of the all the things that happened are that happen are so ridiculous at times that nothing needs to be dramatize your the actual facts are ridiculous enough, right. And the facts are somebody made that decision, someone made that decision to make the decision. Here's the other other interesting facts. I still had a daughter in Catholic school in 2016. There was no communication at that time to the parents of the Archdiocese, that that review board that we tout in our literature, and oh, this and that has now been cut out of a process that they were involved in, that could have protected your children, because they are a group of professionals. I never received any information as a parent that they were cut out what I did receive. At one point I received a letter that somehow a small amount of money from donations to Catholic Charities or something was somehow embezzled, but by some employee of a bank, a very small amount of money, and I received a letter to let me know that that has been fixed in my my donations are safe. But I never received a letter about my child safety, and that the charter for the protection of children had been revised. So where's the transparency in that? Why did they cut out a group of professionals who can weigh in on interim action? Why do they continue to leave priests with kids for up to a year? If you remember at one point, Susan, when Father John Paul had been left in ministry for a full year, and then it hit hit the news that he had been left in ministry before the allegations were substantiated. Ken Gavin, issued a statement that he said pertinent parties had been informed at the parish will who is more pertinent than a parent? One would assume the parents or Lady of Calvary had not been informed that their pastor for one year had been left with their kids well under secret investigation for child sex abuse. Yesterday, this is just the timing of this. A survivor of Father John Paul found the police report online where he was interviewed in the fall of 2012 by the police in Cape May County for an allegation years before child sex abuse with graphic descriptions that this survivor had come forward and everything, and he's, you know, he's driving to Cape May county to meet with the prosecutors, as he's the pastor of Our Lady of Calvary, in charge of the safety of every child in that school. And at that time, Pennsylvania law, the mandatory reporting law was still that the head of the institution was in charge of reporting abuse. So if you know a teacher at that time or coach, you know, had suspect and another teacher was abusing or a priest or a coach or parent or anything, it would have been going to Father John Paul, the pastor, to then report that to the Childline that, you know, the police, not knowing that their pastor is actually under investigation for child sex abuse himself. That was 2013. And to read that police report his stomach turning knowing that at that time, he was still pastor Parish, and he was for a full year after that. From 2018 to 2020, there have been Father John Myers was left at the mountain retreat house for nine months where the kids go to Kairos, where there's day camps with four and five year olds, there's teenage employees. Father, Christopher Lucas was at Hallahan High School for Girls. He taught two classes. He remained a chaplain, as you know, with private office hours with the students going in for spiritual guidance. He was a role of authority. He was left in for a year, a father, William Dean was left to Camilla Hall, which is a retirement like a nursing home for hm nuns, they have teen employees, they have kids, I have brought kids to Carmel Hall on service trips, there are kids everywhere at functions that Kamal Ha, they left him in ministry, knowing that in 2014, they had found a have a found it boundary violation against him. So they even left a priest with a boundary violation in ministry while he's being investigated. And then every once in a while, they'll remove a priest and they'll announce it and they'll say he's been removed. There's nothing ever on his record before, but we're removing him during the investigation. What is that all about? Is that politics? Is it? Does the safety of our children come down to which priests is favored? And which priest isn't? Who a priest knows who they don't? And how is that even fair for the priests to not have a definite policy?

Susan Matthews:

Ultimately, the review boards answer to their bishops and they're in perhaps lies the problem, Mike, I know that's your issue, and one that you have a unique perspective on as a survivor.

Mike McDonnell:

The underlying and we go back to that and it's protecting the predator, instead of developing a good system of care for survivors. So as a survivor, myself, I came forward, I was well above the curve. And well, before the age of 52. I disclosed my abuse at the age of 35. And what I didn't realize then was I did not know the full impact that child abuse at the hands of two clergy out of the Archdiocese of Philadelphia trogdor and schmear had had on me, I was going through those steps simply because I became sober at that time. So talking through it with sponsors and counselors, and peeling away those layers of onions. I was encouraged to come forward and disclose what happened to me. The first go to was to report it to the Archdiocese of Philadelphia, of which they took the formal reports and said, We're going to give this to the review board when they had the review board cap back then. And it was pretty easy for the review board to come back quickly with my claim against father Trotter. Now togher is now serving a state sentence in an unrelated case to mine, but in the second case, and for me, this is where it really became super kind of disturbing, Susan and it was because of schmeer and and the length of time that I spent as a student close to 12 years. being groomed and getting to know schmear. And interesting in that, that figure that to me, was the worst of the abuse even though the physical part was more traumatizing by trigger, if you look at it on paper, mentally, for me, the most damaging was Shamir and that was because of the length of time. And when the review board came back with their findings, and the actions of schmear at the Jersey Shore besides the multiple groupings and molestations, where he had placed live crabs on my exposed body. They came back and said it was ministerial misconduct. So, ministerial misconduct, boundary violations. Where does all of that fall in? How is that line item two, it's inserted into this is we deem it as ministerial misconduct. What I came to find out later on, was that Canon Law protected Shamir he sold his jersey shore home for I believe, $275,000, how he hired an excellent canonical lawyer. And it was simply to save his collar. By doing so, the diocese then backed off the Les isation process, because schmear had already had a credible case found against him prior to me and that stem for the 1960s. But the diocese accepted that. And then they offered him what they call prayer and penance. So he saved this collar through a legal process under canon law, which is not transparent. I was not allowed to see or review any documents of the investigation or the findings. I have them now. But back then they would not reveal any information as to how they came to that decision.

Susan Matthews:

And transparency, let's let me just quickly say it is it's important that transparency because a lack of it is so disrespectful to the Catholics, it is worse than that dangerous for children. But Mike, I want you to share a little bit about father smart and Monsignor low grip and father Meyers, your your story with that, like

Mike McDonnell:

I, you know, I knew father's smart and I knew Monsignor the grip they both taught me at Bishop Kenner High School in my years in 1982, to 86. But you know, how this came about? We, we learned and it was Kathy and I we had some discussion and email and Kathy and I text back and forth information. And we learned that there was an allegation against father smart. But the diocese came out and said that he had not been an active ministry, since I believe was 2002. Is that correct?

Kathy Kane:

I think it was. Yeah, like something about not active ministry since 1995. And in a private residence since 2002.

Susan Matthews:

So we will have we will have all these facts in the show notes. Yeah. And the articles relating will have links. So you can read these and your publications. You don't just have to take our word for it.

Kathy Kane:

So when the press release came out when he was removed from ministry in 2007, I'm sorry, 2019. I don't want to interrupt Mike. Their information in the press release was completely wrong. It was completely wrong. He had been at a parish until 2017. He'd been three different parishes. So Mike, glad you can pick up

Mike McDonnell:

Yeah, so so it didn't take long for us to do a deep dive. In fact, we didn't have to go deep at all for the dive. What we did, we did a little bit of Googling and we found parish bulletins that had fathers smart saying mass this coming Sunday at scene Eleanor's up in college in Limerick or college. The diocese did not inform the public of the previous assignments and where Father smart had been living up in I believe it was either st Philip Neary up

Kathy Kane:

it was st Falconeri 2017. And

Mike McDonnell:

they didn't disclose that information until they were challenged. Kathy initiated that that email to the diocese.

Kathy Kane:

They made my famous emails.

Mike McDonnell:

Yep. Immediately. Yeah, a little light goes off. A little red light goes off when the emails come in to the diocese.

Kathy Kane:

Yeah, parishes here, Chicago Batroun.

Mike McDonnell:

But it was immediately corrected and reflected immediately on their on their website. But why did it have to go to that loving?

Kathy Kane:

Mic? If you remember, it wasn't immediately corrected. They actually left it up in the press release, so that journalists were then writing the articles. Yes, yes. Yes. A few days for a few days based on the wrong information.

Mike McDonnell:

Yep. Let me get out first, and then we'll then we'll kind of fix it.

Kathy Kane:

Then there was all the articles from the local papers all wrote it with the wrong information based on the press release. So what Susan like you see Mike, and here's headquarters, right Mike like this is it's us with laptops. It's I think it's survivor first texted me and said, I google father in smart and he was at whatever. And you know, I'm always so nice. I am and I'm not my minus your actions. There must be to Father Raymond smarts, because how could they put out such wrong information? And then Mike, and I spent the day because I remember it was an Eagles playoff game. And my husband said, please leave Mike alone. The Eagles are now on. Yeah. Leave him alone. Because we're finding out everything as as we're going along. I don't know about St. Teresa Calcutta and how recently he was there. I know. I think I had I picked up the phone. I think I called St. Eleanor's or something. And they were like, Oh, it was here until 2017. So regardless, it took, you know, and then even in the Catholic Philly article, this is how insane it is. The Catholic Philly article that they did, prep says New information has come our way. Okay, Catholic Philly is the official news source of the Diocese. That's where all the records are. But we are the new source of information. How is this even possible? So my question is

Susan Matthews:

happy what I'm special software did you use for your certain I spyware?

Kathy Kane:

It was my spyware setup. And

Susan Matthews:

no, seriously, was it Google?

Kathy Kane:

It was Google. It was a survivor. The survivor texted me and said, I saw the press release. I googled father, Raymond smart, and I'm coming up with him at St. Eleanor's, you know, and then we all started googling. Then some people would call as Mike said, maybe he put it on Facebook, or people called him and throughout the day, and I even picked up the phone and called one of the parishes and said was he actually there until 2017. And they went and asked the priests and priests Yeah, 2017, where the diocese had had him out of commission for what, almost 18 years or something like that. So these press releases are coordinated between the Office of Investigations and the Office of Communications. And I know that because I mistakenly was copied on an email before, because they also forget to take me off their emails. So it's a coordinated effort. So two offices get that so wrong, that they get 1717 years wrong. The other part of that press release was Monsignor Logar, who now had been removed for the second time. And what's missing from his record St. Aloysius Academy for boys, where he had been the chaplain for some 15 to 20 years. He's in their yearbooks, he's in everything, because it was a voluntary assignment he took, but he took it as a Philadelphia archdiocese and priests with their permission, you have to permission for everything. But because it's a voluntary assignment, they will never list that in his assignments. So what that's absolute disgrace. It's scary, because now, allegations of abuse have come from his time at St. Aloysius. We know that for fat Yeah. So if you it doesn't even show up on his record. So that was part of the press release. The third part was father, John Myers. It was a trifecta of garbage is what we call we're calling it the way that the Father John Myers, situation was written, you have to read it a few times. And you know, a light person reading this, you're not reading it a few times, you have to parse every word. They wrote it in a way that it made it sound like the allegation was received in late, late 2018. And he also was removed from mountain retreat house in 2018. So you were thinking, Oh, good, they received it. They removed him, all that kind of stuff. We came to find out the allegation was received nine months prior that was not listed in his press release. The Archdiocese, I've you know, emailed them and said, This is the information we got it was it was actually March, you know, it wasn't October. They've never corrected me. They just won't respond. We've written about on Catholic stir change. So I'm saying that's the information we have and they've never, they've never told me that we were wrong. That entire press release And I think it was January 2018. Was garbage on all three of those priests from being wrong information, missing information on low grip and misleading information on Myers. I'll just follow that up. Father Myers. I'm Mike, if you remember, just a few months after that. We Catholics are change and Carolyn Fortney. Is survivor found him employed by charter school in Arizona because he had been found unsuitable for ministry by the Archdiocese. He was gone. He was in Arizona. We found him employed by a charter school, the Archdiocese had no idea. So then we're also con contacting the Archdiocese let them know, we found your your praise, you're supposed to have some eyes on even after they're removed. He's working for a charter school. They had no idea. And this is headquarters guys. Here you go. Right. Right. So and you didn't have to hire a private investigator? No, it's just it's it's you didn't have drones? Like, No, it's It's survivors, advocates. And it's also the people in the pews. And I want to say for anyone that follows us, for the people in the pews. You don't know how many times people reach out to us with concerns or with information. And they find that they trust us more than they trust the Archdiocese of Philadelphia. That's a problem that that is a real problem. But I know from Adam, either they don't have a lot, though. Yeah, yes, they're

Susan Matthews:

taking responsibility, which they should, each of us has this responsibility to protect children. Exactly that that is what is expected of us as Catholics it and that is, thank thank you to everybody who calls us with

Kathy Kane:

every every person, you know, when we started this Catholic church change, we had no plan, we didn't even know what we were doing. And it reminds me of like, if you build it, they will come and something will happen. And we will hear from people who contact us right away. And I'll even say to them, Well, how did you? How did you know of us? Oh, I've been following you for years. And I always know something's gonna happen. I'm contacting you guys. We've heard from people who have been at the places where the priests under investigation have been left in ministry. And they have told us I work directly with the children. We had no idea that this priest was under investigation for child sex abuse, maybe some random administrator and a facility or principal of a school. But the people working directly with the kids contact us and say, we had absolutely no idea that this person was under investigation, and had any restrictions concerning children whatsoever. So when the Archdiocese says, Oh, if we leave them in ministry, during the investigation, we have layers of protection and measures and up but they will never tell you what those things are. It's just all words. And then you hear from the actual people saying this guy was everywhere. I mean, this piece was what no one had when he was here. He was there. He was, you know, he had office hours, he, you know, none of us knew we're the ones with the kids. So they'll reach out. And they'll tell us that and I appreciate every person that trusts us enough. And sometimes people can't speak up for a few reasons. So they they feel that we can and that's fine, too. That's we're more than willing to do that. Because even if they can't come forward themselves by contacting us, they are helping to protect children by giving us information.

Susan Matthews:

So the takeaway here is there, the Archdiocese in the hierarchy is either incredibly incompetent, or it's intentional, which is it? Or somewhere it's mixed together. But I lean toward the intentional because I like to give people more credit than to think that they're that incompetent. Yeah. But whatever they'd like to claim we'd love to hear with which they're claiming on this. So does anybody have any other examples of a lack of transparency? So we did we talk about father McGoldrick.

Kathy Kane:

We did not talk about father McGoldrick father, Kevin Goldrick, was a priest in the Philadelphia archdiocese, who was on loan to the Diocese of Nashville, and he was a real young priest. I think he's about 40. When he went down to Nashville, he was took an assignment at a college down there that is about the size of Immaculata college and Villa Maria High School here in Philadelphia, tiny, very small. Usually when a priest is leaving the diocese for another assignment, there's a real reason to it. And priests do leave sometimes for other diocese not but that's fine. This was very odd being with the pre shortage that they would just have him go down there and loan him out. We believe that he was unassigned when he left Philadelphia, which is concerning. However, I've contacted Ken Gavin. And this is the transparency they preach.

Susan Matthews:

Let me just stop And remind everybody that Ken Gavin is from the communications archdiocese and yes person,

Kathy Kane:

the clergy office of Philadelphia and Ken Gavin will not give us the assignment record of father can vote just the assignment record. You know this powerset. parishes will not release it. But this is transparency. He was accused of sexually assaulting a college student at the Aquinas College in Nashville where he had been for I think six years on loan from the Archdiocese of Philadelphia. The Catholic Herald did a long in depth article with the survivor participating in the article. The Diocese of Nashville messed it up of course, they didn't contact Philadelphia right away because he was still our priest. He was not in coordinated is that the word Susan when they are officially in another diocese as so. The survivor herself contacted the Philadelphia archdiocese a few months into after she had reported they open investigation here because he is his are priests. While he was under investigation by the Archdiocese of Philadelphia, he played a music festival in Duluth, the Diocese of Duluth he headlined a music festival because this guy's a musician. It's all over the place. He was the lead performer everything the survivor context archdiocese again, this guy's under investigation for sexual assault. Why is he out headlining a music festival? Right because it's all over the internet. You can find him up father Kevin McGoldrick bring your children bring the teens a family event, the Diocese of Duluth had no idea. I'm not blaming them. Why did they have no idea because the Archdiocese of Philadelphia never announced that there was an allegation that he's being placed on administrative leave, and that there's an investigation, which other diocese do not say even when involving adult cases in the last couple of years we've seen now the announcements also will involve adult assault or behave behavior against an adult. We don't even do that here with kids. So of course they're not doing it with an adult case. So the dice is the dude has no idea this guy's under investigation. I don't I don't blame them. And of course, it's one of our Philly priests trotting around having music festivals while under investigation for sex abuse. Okay, they find all this confidence. That what whose confidence? The diocese appraised? Great, yeah, he's all over. He's, he's taping podcasts out in Duluth, he's, you know,

Susan Matthews:

everything we touch everyone with his music.

Kathy Kane:

Yes. And he in the in the podcast, they asked Oh, how's it going at the school? Oh, I'm I'm entering a new phase of ministry. Haha that I can't talk about yet. Yeah, he's under investigation for sexual assault. Okay. The Archdiocese finds that he violated the Standards of Ministerial Behavior and Boundaries. So I I am not clear that they found the sexual assault to be credible. They found something in the in the situation that the young woman presented that violated the boundaries. So I don't know what that is. We don't know what they found credible. And he is now seeking voluntary lays lays the foundation. This has never been announced by the Archdiocese. The Catholic Carl did a wonderful article. The Archdiocese has never announced anything. I have contacted other diocese where I found they still have his podcasts up. Can you take the podcast down? I can't. On his music bio. He identified himself as a priest called the Archdiocese. He's identifying himself as a priest and I'm just doing this from my laptop. He's still many places I haven't gotten to yet that people have no idea. If you hadn't read the Catholic Herald article, you would have no idea. There's nothing on the Archdiocese Philadelphia site at all, if you go on their site, about him. So where's the transparency in that? They won't Susan, they will not even give us his assignment record here for us to write our article just oh, he was at that parish. She you know, he was at this parish. There's been no communication at all. And why why was he allowed to go down there to begin with? Why was there no announcement? It's it's absolutely ridiculous. It's it's, it's ridiculous what our diocese gets away with,

Susan Matthews:

right? Because we know that awareness leads to prevention. So if the Archdiocese wanted to put their money where their mouth is, they could pay a outsourced service to provide the services that you've been doing for free and post it somewhere publicly, because that awareness would help.

Kathy Kane:

And the thing is about father because I'm a soldier, he has a presence. You know, he traveled for his music and he would be at different youth things. and everything like that. And there's even more of a reason to put out the information about him outside the public statement. So that that people know that he is now you know, has violated the standards of Ministero behavior and is seeking voluntary laissez ation, have you encountered him along the way at some point. This is just information that you should know. And it's, you know, I give the Catholic Herald a lot of credit for their, their their in depth reporting, because we never would have known any of this and at this point, I throw my dog. The bones of the dog stops barking

Susan Matthews:

well, is your faithfulness in these investigations.

Kathy Kane:

My dog knows more about the Archdiocese of Philadelphia than many people do.

Susan Matthews:

Thanks to Sammy the dog and his owner, Kathy Kane. And I'd like to say a big thanks to Zach Heiner and Mike McDonnell, from snap for bringing us all this incredibly comprehensive and accurate information. And that's how we'll create change. And thank you to our listeners for sticking with us. This was a lot to digest. And I'd like to end on a positive note and offer a solution or a way to take action on this information. Let's go to use Zack to close.

Zach Hiner:

Yeah, I mean, it sounds pithy and silly, but ask, I mean, honestly, like a person writing, hey, I'm a parishioner at you know, St. Matthews, and I want to know more about your review board processes. I want to know, how does the How are allegations in our diocese figured out continually asking and forcing these folks to respond to their bread and butter. I mean, if we're if we're talking about a business, since the people in the pews, giving the money, are really the church and hold all of the power. And the more that parishioners come together and start demanding answers on any topic from their church leaders, the more they realize they actually have to proactively talk about them. I do think that is easier said than done, you know, but we're always happy to help anybody with communications and in any kind of sense. And I just think the more that we have your everyday parishioner sort of sticking up and asking more questions about what's coming out and maybe pushing back when you see a press release. It doesn't really make a lot of sense. You know, obviously groups like ours are known to be a thorn in their side so we're ignored but but someone who actually sits there every week every Sunday might get a response and continually pushing I think is the way to make change.

Susan Matthews:

For more information on the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, please visit snap network.org And there will be more information on that organization and Catholics for change in the show notes below. For more revelations, please hit subscribe